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Replay With ATEMs

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Dallas,
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Joined: 02/05/2013
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Replay With ATEMs

We're looking at replay systems for live football and basketball games. So far I've found the NewTek 3Play seems to be the most popular choice and Tightrope's Zeplay as a more expensive alternative. Are there any other choices I should be considering?

I'll be using the system with either a ATEM 1 M/E or 4K.

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North NJ
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Joined: 07/03/2012
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You can build your own with a

You can build your own with a few SSDs and a SDI I/O card.

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berlin
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The used Mixer (ATEM) has

The used Mixer (ATEM) has noting to do with your Slomo/Replay-Solution ;-)

Some people here uses Hyperdecks instead of normal Tapes, using a DNF300 Controller. But because of  the Hyperdecks don't be able to record and playback at the same time (chaseplay / timeshift), it really works like a tape-based solution.... (Disadvantage: You cant continue recording while playing)

(Oh it would be so nice, when Blackmagic would give a chasepaly function to their Hyperdecks ......)

Maybe the software Vidblaster can do the job. You need some BM-Cards for inserting and outputting, a fast PC with fast Harddisks. I don't know the quality and the usage don't seems to be easy. But the (branded) software trial is for free ..... (Maybe make yout first try with some cheep USB Grabber instead of expensive BM cards...)

I think, the best hardware solution for a acceptable price is the NewTek 3Play.

Quote:

You can build your own with a few SSDs and a SDI I/O card.

I would be very interested for my sports club. How does it wok ? Which Software ? Which Price ?  What kind of PC ?

 

 

Maybe a bored programmer could create a freeware solution for 1-3 BM Decklink Cards to handle 1-3 streams. Continous record of every stream on its own separate Harddisk. Small previev Windows for running recording and independent playback.
Output on one BM-Card.

Controlled by a midi device with faders for playback position and speed.

Thomas  S e e w a l d - thos-berlin (amateur)

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London
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thos-berlin, I'm not a

thos-berlin,

I'm not a "bored" programmer, but we have this system, we normally install 2 Decklink Extreme cards, plus one duo, giving 4 channels, in a 4U rack mount Win2008R2 server with 16 RAID hot swapable RAID array drives. Intel 16 Channel RAID controller.

We normally use 2TB SATA3 drives in RAID 60 configuration, giving 24TB of very fast storage capacity (lose 4 discs to RAID).

We use 2 Extremes for anlog inputs and where our recorded footage is in SD and the requirement is for HD output (Extremes have a hardware up-convertor on the boards). And two Duos for simple 1.5Gb/s I/O.

It's a "cheap as chips" video server solution, and I think most companies who deal with video, either buy in similar solutions or develop their own. It's actually EXTREMELY trivial to build a solution for your specific needs, extend the demos included with the Decklink SDK. The complexity comes from trying to be all things to all people........

I'd love to put our media management system, and remote management of the Decklink channels out there for people to use, but the problems would be codecs (People wanting to use FFMPEG), and people trying to use on inappropriate hardware. Basically it wouldn't be worth the hassle involved, and that's why AVID systems (and similar from other suppliers, cost so much, and almost always come with a support contract).

But they are good, and have very useful features.....

http://www.avid.com/us/categories/broadcast-newsroom-systems/storage-servers

The best alternative to this, is just to program yourself up a decent GUI for CasparCG. It's the perfect solution for this end of the market. My focus on this product so far as been Graphics, but I am intending to put together a really extensive GUI for controlling CasparCG from JustMacros (i.e. your MIDI interface requirement). The drawback to this, is additional GPU requirement, but I still think is likely to be the easiest solution for most ATEMUsers.

Cheers

John

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berlin
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Sorry John

Sorry John, I'm far away calling you a bored programmer !

Thomas  S e e w a l d - thos-berlin (amateur)

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Brighton,
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I guess its worth mentioning

I guess its worth mentioning EVS at this point as nobody else has. The EVS system is perhaps the defacto standard system for broadcast slow-mo - it's actually a proper slow motion system which can accept high framerate inputs giving proper full resolution / full framerate slow motion replays. 

"It's extremely expensive, but it is significantly better than other systems which use standard framerate cameras and thus have juddery playback at less than realtime speeds. 

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No offense taken mate! This

No offense taken mate!

This issue keeps coming up, and once I've got a lot further with my control system, perhaps I'll see if we can release some of the utils we use to do some of what you are talking about.

In particular chunked recording and Chunked seamless in MJPEG  is very easy to achieve using 2 Decklink channels and one of the BMD included examples using something called a GMF Bridge, this allows instant reply, and I've already described it in detail on the BMD forum.

SlowMo is slightly more difficult.

I don't want to split my focus between "control" and "video", I want to focus on control where my experience and expertise is, I hope more developers will come into this user group and add the Decklink video utils needed, maybe BMD could develop some more video apps, instead of putting all their focus on Media Express. If not, I'll get round to it eventually(2014).

Maybe take a look at Virtual VTR if you have Macs you can use. You can do a lot with this product too.

Cheers

John

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Tom, EVS "is the nuts", and

Tom, EVS "is the nuts", and if you can rent one for your job for this type of thing, you can't do any better.

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berlin
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I think, here in forum are a

I think, here in forum are a lot of people, supporting schools or sport clubs or from small TV productions using "cheep" BM ATEM Mixer and other inexpensive equipment, looking for a also cheep possibility to create useable live slow motions.

In this kind, I understand most of the slomo-questions.... The same question I also have ;-), but first I'll try to keep may TVS running and try to create simple lower thirds.....

Edit::
@Tom: Am I right, that "instant replay" only "repeats" the video, but "SloMotion" gives a additional varaibel speed ? Maybe half a speed would be enough for most of the people....

Thomas  S e e w a l d - thos-berlin (amateur)

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The problem with SlowMo is

The problem with SlowMo is this.

You need special cameras!

I've just been watching the Eurosport (probably Dorna) HD footage of Valentino Rossi sliding his MotoGP bike round a corner at Jerez. They use 1000fps progressive cameras to capture that stuff. You can't pass that directly through to the ATEM, you need, like Tom says, special systems to be able to read the files produced by these cameras in very specific ways to do variable SlowMo.

SlowMo-ing normal cameras is fraught with problems, especially in the interlaced world, where it basically "always look sh1t".

Instant reply, and freeze frames to see if the "Ball crossed the line" is the only real way to do it, and you just need to BOB de-interlace the source when freeze framed to eliminate the motion between fields effects. There is an argument to say you can toggle between fields too, but this is also tricky to avoid the frame then shifting vertically to the eye, so you'll definitely need to mask the top and bottom few lines, and you can't really use fields to improve SlowMo playback resolution.

Basically It's very tricky to do SlowMo cheaply!!! Don't waste too much time trying!

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Actually I've just thought of

Actually I've just thought of a way you can do it cheaply.

Do instant reply with 720p cameras.

Have a trans-code phase where 720p is stretched to 1920x1080, and then play that back as 25fps. 

You can do this near-real time, at no cost beyond what is included in the Decklink SDK, and some clever file manipulation.

This will give you decent-ish pictures at 50% original capture speed.

Cheers

John

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Thanks for the ideas

Thanks for the additional options. I'll go look into some of those.

Thomas - I guessed the mixer didn't matter much but having lurked in the forums for a while I figured if there were other options someone here would know.

For me slowmo would be nice but not essential. I think the EVS solution is beyond our budget.

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Eindhoven
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My solution

I guess I'm such a lazy programmer... I wrote my own replay software since my requirements are quite far from an EVS system:
- be (only) remotely controllable
- work with decklink cards
- SD resolution
- 1 minute of recording is sufficient
- play very smoothly
- play at several speeds both negative and positive speeds, and speeds below and above 1 (standard speed).

My solution was to acquire continuously with one Decklink card, store it in memory, and replay from a second card.
With a remote protocol a marker can be set, playback position can be set, speed can be set, etcetera.
I want to extend it in the future for 2 channel input, tracking playing output and some more simple additions.

If people are interested and are willing to pay for it, maybe I can create a nice version that can be released...
Let me know when you might be interested.

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I'd need it to be HD to be

I'd need it to be HD to be useful, but sounds like a good project, and I wish you success! I'll buy a license to help support project if you decide to launch it.

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Leipzig
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Hyperdeck Instant Replay

Hello, I’m Anett from Berlin and I’m
a multi camera live editor. I had the same problem: how to generate
slow motions for sport streaming events?

Together with Nina, an IT specialist
für iOS devices, we developed an app to control up to 4 Blackmagic
Hyperdecks as a SlowMotion system.

I used it in many live productions,
with cameras using synchronized timecode and cameras using no
timecode. For cameras with timecode the app provides more
functionality.

HyperSlow for iOS supports functions
like record, playback with different speeds and tagging. A
“SuperPlay” function allows to play back a scene in slow motion
from different camera angles one after the other, given that the
cameras use synchronized timecode.

We developed and tested the app over
the last 12 months and improved it from event to event.

You can learn more about the app on
liveskills.net.

Characteristics of HyperSlow:

• Connect
Hyperdecks with an iPad using Wi-Fi or a separate LAN and start
recording simultaneously

• Use 4 “event keys” to tag
important moments in the time line and playback all decks
synchronously

• In record mode the key “Stop
Reverse” allows to jump before a tagged event to start play back in
slow motion. The jump time can be freely defined.

• Use normal SlowMotion playback to
play the same scene synchronous from all connected decks. Therefore
you can switch on your live switcher from one camera angle to another
in the continuous scene.

• Use “SuperPlay” to
automatically play back slow motions sequentially from different
angles. You need timecode synchronized cameras to use this feature.

• Use HyperSlow to create a list of
custom events, store them and export them with the respective
timecodes as Excel file.

• Reach good slow motion results with
image rates of 50/60 fps and playback speed of 50%. Acceptable
results are still possible with 25% play back speed.

As
“HyperSlow” cannot play back and record at the same time, you may
need another Hyperdeck or recording device to continue recording the
video signal while playing back slow motion material.

 

Prices and availability:

HyperSlow can be downloaded in Apple’s
AppStore here: https://itunes.apple.com/de/app/hyperslow/id1147161413

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Adelaide,
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Joined: 06/09/2012
Posts: 62
So I did this a little while

So I did this a little while ago for some Grid Iron, 

 

I actually ended up using the new(ish) replay function of Wirecast, it worked very well for the event, we didn't do anything massively complex, but what we did do worked everytime.

I have my own TV Show, Player Attack. I also film live music, its fun!!!

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Maastricht
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Slomo and Replay

Have you looked at this...

http://www.datavideo.com/product/HDR-10

Its capable of slomo...and 4 recorders with a controller.

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PEMBROKE,
Canada
Joined: 13/09/2016
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replay systems

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&u...

See video

 

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Troisgots
France
Joined: 16/12/2011
Posts: 17
otherwise you have

otherwise you have Mreplay

http://www.softron.tv/products/mreplay

 

 

Hugues MARIE